Help me welcome Dr. Christine Van Cott. Dr. Van Cott practices General Surgery and Hepatopancreaticobiliary (HPB) Surgery at Saint Vincent’s Medical Center in Bridgeport, CT, where she is the chief of general surgery and director of acute care trauma services. She is a mom to two boys and has been married for 16 years. She is the Surgical Clerkship Director and a Professor of Surgery at the Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine. Dr. Van Cott earned her MD at State University of New York at Buffalo and completed General Surgery residency at Hospital of St. Raphael, New Haven, CT. She went on to complete a fellowship in HPB Surgery at Auckland City Hospital, New Zealand. Dr. Van Cott leads the Netter SOM Surgery Interest Group with great success. Having served as a faculty mentor for this group since its creation, she has helped gather volumes of medical students throughout the four years of school for panels, networking events, volunteer projects, and shadowing opportunities. She is dedicated to helping medical students achieve what they are passionate about, and assists in providing opportunities for mentorship to students beginning on day-one.
welcome to essential wisdom. Inspiring future female physicians. A podcast for engaging and informing the next generation of women in medicine. My name is carried a bow. I'm 1/4 year medical student at the Frank H. Netter, MD. School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University. Essential Wisdom is a podcast for discussing the joys and the challenges off being a woman in medicine through the sharing of stories and advice by women who mentor us. Take a seat with me at the desk of the mentors, come along tow, walk the halls of the hospitals to experience residency and life as a physician personally, as we get to know these phenomenal physicians and scientists. Hello and Happy New Year. Welcome back to essential wisdom, inspiring future female physicians. My name is carried Bo, and I am your host. I'm 1/4 year medical student at the Frank aged Daughter MD. School of Medicine, and I'm so excited to welcome you back for the second half of this installation of essential wisdom inspiring future female physicians. For the past few months, I've been traveling and interviewing for surgical residency positions, and I'm so excited to be back to welcome in the new year together and to use this time to celebrate some very special physicians, some very special stories and to share their thoughts as we all had forward into a new year. We turn over a new leaf, and we reflect on the new things that are ahead of us. And I think this is a pertinent time to share their stories. So I hope you guys enjoy tuning in. We have nine amazing women who will be speaking on the show during this installment and will be releasing episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays throughout the month of January and close out this installment of essential Wisdom on Friday, January 31st with a special episode. So thank you to everyone who tunes in. Please continue to share this podcast. Share these stories and I hope you enjoy this one as much as I did. Help me. Welcome Dr Christie and Van Cott. Dr Van Cott practices general surgery and have pad Oh, pancreatic Oh, Billy Ery H P B surgery at ST Vincent's Medical Center in Bridgeport, Connecticut, where she is the chief of general surgery and director of acute care Trauma Service is she's a mom to two boys and has been married for 16 years. She's the surgical clerkship director and a professor of surgery at the Frank Age Netter, MD. School of Medicine. Dr. Van Cott under MD. At State University of New York at Buffalo and completed general surgery residency at Hospital of ST Raphael, New Haven, Connecticut. She went on to complete a fellowship in H P B surgery at Auckland City Hospital, New Zealand. Dr. Van Cott leads the Net, or School of Medicine Surgery Interest Group with great success. Having served as a faculty mentor for this group since its creation, she has helped gather volumes of medical students throughout their four years of school for panels, networking events, volunteer projects and shadowing opportunities. She is dedicated to helping medical students achieve what they are passionate about and assist in providing opportunities for mentorship to students. Beginning on day one. Dr Van Cott, Thank you for coming to the show. Welcome to essential wisdom.
Thank you. Happy to be here. Thank you. So, the way that I like to begin the interview is to ask you to tell us about your path to becoming a female physician. Sure. Um, I don't have Ah, glamour story. I grew up in, ah, middle collar family, Um, kind of middle class family in New York. It was a punk. Pulls my whole life. I didn't have doctors in my family. My mother was a wonderful nurse. Um and so I got little tidbits of the house Fairfield through her. I was always really good at science. Is, um I was a good student growing up and a lot of the weighing I tended thio enjoy the science is more than some of my other classes. Um, I went to college at Hobart, going Smith with a thinking that I made kind of goto premed, whatever capacity that meant. But I did go to a liberal arts school. Um, kind of kept my door open, wondering if there was something else I would enjoy as well. But I always kind of got pulled to the sciences, and from there I got directed to medical school. And to be frankly honest, I didn't really know what that meant. A counselor kind of told me to go to medical school, and it sounded like a good idea, and it made my credit, his parents very proud. That has already headed? Not really, But it's much idea of what kind of doctor I wanted to be or exactly what that meant. But that really put me on my path a little bit of the unknown for me at that time. But honestly, I wouldn't change a thing. And I'm glad that somebody steered me in that direction. How did that winds up happening? Was that through the intervention of a faculty member or a mentor that you had in college For me, it was really just a school counselor. That kind of put me on the path I was good at. Science is you should be a doctor. Uh, e I really honestly didn't really know what that meant except that, you know, doctors were highly regarded. It was a good profession. I was good students. So it seems to be the logical match academically for me. I really didn't give much thought at that point a lifestyle or career choice or career type or specialty. I didn't even know the possibilities that existed at that point. So it's funny that part of me is glad. I didn't know because I might have had more reservations that I know I might have contemplated other choices. What? I have known the path ahead of me. But the best thing I did was just kind of follow the next step in the past that somebody put in front of me. Yeah, There's two things that I think it's really interesting. First you mentioned that your your mom was in there. Yeah, My mom was a wonderful nurse. Um, she just recently retired. She usedto work in New York hospital. Um, you know, in the good old days when hospital for hospitals and nurses were nurses, Um and, uh, you know, she was always a nurse who really cared for her patients. I remember her coming home from her shift, exhausted and staying late and doing little things, you know, shaving a patient or helping him cutting her food or giving them a bath. And as I got older and involved in health care, um, industry, because that's what it is. Now I realize how important those little things she did for the patients mattered. And I definitely try and reflect what I learned from her into how I care for my patients today. Yeah, so it seems like that's a theme that has carried throughout your career in that way. Yeah. No, absolutely. Um, for for me, medicine was a bit of an extension of who I waas. I grew up in a household that value others. I grew up in a household that, um you know, we we did volunteer hours. We thought about others. Um, we spent our time helping other people. Um, and that was just part of what we did. It was part of culturally who we were as part of religiously who we were. And it it was important for me that I think my professional choice reflected that in a way. So, yeah, it was a very natural extension of kind of who I wanted before I became a physician, but definitely who I am now that I am a physician and surgeon and that also at the wife and a mom, it's reflected in a very different way. Um, to lots of people do kind of a part of my life. Now, when you were going through the process of deciding you're going to go to medical school, Did you have a cinnamon tours that you looked up to or people tabulate. I have to say I really didn't. All of my professors in the sciences were men. Um, most of them were quite a bit older, um learned academic tight. They were very approachable. Um, and I could talk with them, but I didn't particularly have very many female men towards. Within the science is, um, I hold also happen to be a collegiate athlete. Um, and one of my mentors was really my female coach. Um, not only I think, was a coach on the field for me, but off the field, she demanded excellence of us. And that wasn't just athletic excellence. It was academic excellence. And it was personal excellence and ethical. Excellent. And she held us to this incredibly high standard to which I was kind of used to my parents holding me, too. And it was one of the reasons I chose the school I went to you is that I thought that I would be continued to be pushed to be the best person I could be. Um and, you know, I credit her a lot for kind of keeping me, um, on the same path that my parents caught me on years ago. Um, and helping me achieve what I achieved in college and getting me into medical school and helping me be successful. That's a fabulous person to have in your life. And I feel that in a way, probably what you experience as a sports player and someone who had a coach translates to surgery. Oh, absolutely. That teamwork mentality, I think, is one of the reasons I enjoy surgery so much. Um, there's no I in team. I don't think there's an I in medicine either. Released there shouldn't be in the operating room for me is the place where you're never alone. It's never about an eye. It's about you, your patient and the team. And I enjoyed them so very much, and I found that very appealing about my medical training, about my surgical training and about my choice of my profession. Um, and I think everything I learned on ah, on a fetal from when I was younger through my college days translates d'oh! Me being a successful surgeon, dedications hot and repetition practice, Um, you know, meeting standards, even some other things that we used to work on visual ization. The first time I heard about visual ization and positive thinking. And you know what? If you think you can make it happen, that that was not a sports field, But I used the same technique now on before operations, during operations and stressful time, and that all has really helped me be able to cope in a really wonderful way with my professional duty. That's amazing. Um, in your experience of then transitioning into becoming a professional video, ever fucking guess, being a female of taking on the responsibilities of motherhood and a big career? Absolutely, um, in so many different ways, you know, from, um you know, can I do this? Um, I remember that from my first day, you know, as an attending thio. My first, a fellow to my first of everything. You wonder if you're good enough. You wonder if you should be there. You wonder if they made the right choice. Um, and I don't know if men experience that same staying, but I often see this in my female students. Now we we, as women, I think are really hard on ourselves, and we expect perfection of ourselves. And perfection is is usually unattainable, but it's usually also unnecessary. And it's, um just not human. Nobody is perfect. And I think that, um that took me a long time to realize as a professional. And then I have to tell you, it took me a long time to realize that as a wife and a mom as well that you are not gonna have this perfect marriage. You are not gonna have this perfect kid, and that's OK. It's still a wonderful life, a wonderful marriage in a wonderful career. But on the days were those doubts collide. Those are some of the worst days you have. How do you rectify the pursuit of excellence and managing that desire to find for trying find something close to perfection? Yeah, it's It's about balance for me. Yeah, and I've found other people in my life who helped me with that balance. So, you know, first and foremost, my husband gets an enormous amount of credit. He understands me any better than any Well, he knows what I do. He knows that my dedication of my patients takes both in physical time an emotional time. And then he applauds that, and he supports that. So that for me, is helpful. Um, and he steps in when my Children need a parent and I thought the world was over the time that it doesn't always have to be the home, many traditional model, a role that has changed for our family, and I think my kids are better for it. But that for me, was a big hurdle to get over. But now my kids at school talk about their cool moment surgeon who saw blood and guts. I'm the coolest mom. There is a class, Um, but that was different. It's different in the way garage. It's different, you know, than the way most people kind of you marriages and gender roles. So that was a big shift. And then, I think, also in my job, I work with a lot of other female surgeons and we help each other. Um, we listen to each other. We understand each other. We are our biggest supporters. We also question each other and, you know, and we make sure that we are kind of on our game, and when we're not, that's okay because there's somebody else there to kind of help you through a bad day and whether that's a professional, bad day or personal bad day. It's really great toe. Have another female, another female surgeon, another white sturgeon and other mother surgeons toe listen, and they have the same perspective as you do. And if we help each other, we can make a lot less of those stressful days. Um, by kind of that teamwork perspective against. But yeah, that those for me having the right people on my team has mattered. Yeah, when you were in training, did you have a lot of female trainees around you? I did not. Um, when I was in medical school, um, I I was at a medical class. My class was about 330 was a very large medical class. Moral women were underrepresented in that class. No difference in most other classes. At that time that I was in my training, I moved on to residency. My residency program was actually very gender equal males and females. They were well represented, um, as well as some kind of minorities. I think my residency program was very thoughtful about diversity. Kind of a little bit ahead of the curve. Um, when other programs were kind of forced into it, I think they're already doing that, um and I and I give that a lot of credit that I think that was part of the education that I've gotten a valuable part of my education that I got, um, yeah, and so so for me, I You know, I I didn't start within a medical school, but I've kind of grown into, um, kind of situations where there have been kind of gender, equal equalized situations and then, I have to say is I look for places to become an attending into practice medicine. I looked for institutions that supported women already that had women on faculty or on staff, even if they weren't surgeons. Um, that they made it, had women in leadership positions. Um, and for me, that was comforting that I didn't need to be a Trailblazer per se. Maybe I was gonna be the only, um, oncology surgeons or the only female clerkship director, but, you know, But at least there were other women, and you could see that they were valid with an organization and that those other women were similar situation only to me, um, that they had families and lives and or in a place that supported them. figuring out whatever that balance was for them. And everybody's balance is different. But that was part of my job. Search to kind of look at that balance and how people we're managing in that and that vary from institution institution dramatically, that was very helpful. You read my mind because I was gonna say, having Ray seated at ST Vincent's, I felt that there was a great number of women in surgery and that that's definitely impacted my experience. And I was curious That was a part of what you were looking for when you were speaking or yourself. Yeah, no, absolutely. And as I ascended into more leadership positions and I'm ableto make more changes or facilitate more changes or more empower in hiring processes, Um, I'm I'm very much looking for great female candidate, um, great diverse candidates. You know, I'm always gonna pick the better candidate, the better surgeon. But I'm never gonna overlook another wonderful female, though if I could be helpful and supportive in somebody else's career, that's important for me, and that goes from student to attending. You know, however, Ichan support another, you know, female physician or even health care provider, because I run across a lot of other PH nurses and a PR ends, I think what kind of all in this together and the more we support each other, the better off it will be. I love that. In terms of how then use co surgery. Did you ever second desk using that as a woman? At the time, I didn't. I There was no other choice but surgery. Um, it is where I found my joy. It is where I I found it. I don't I don't know what it waas, but that was it. There was no other place where I belong besides that operating room. And while that operating room wasn't filled with a lot of women or anybody, frankly, what medical student? That was where I belonged. And it didn't matter to me. And I think part of that athlete and me, I was a little bit used to competing with the boys. Um, I was a little bit used to being a tomboy. I was a little bit used to holding my own. Um and I got there and I realized I'm better at this than they are, and I can do this, so I set out to do it. I never I never thought any I was going to be anything else. Once I found surgery, I was hooked. Once you went down that road, did you struggle with confidence personally? Because the confidence issue is something that's come up in a lot of these conversations that have actually had with female positions about whether or not you were confident enough to do the job, you know? Yeah. Yeah, And, um and I I don't think it's stopped in medical school and residency. Um, and I think that that even, you know, sneaks into into my, um, my job Now, um, um, I good enough? Um, you know, do they do they know they picked me to do this job? Um, yeah. And then sometimes it takes taking a deep breath and reminding yourself that you were good at what you d'oh. And sometimes it takes somebody else reminding you that you're good at what you d'oh. And that's where that team that you have around you can be very, very helpful. Um, and connecting with mentors now is different. Then you know the women that I, um, peak with on social media, whether that be Twitter or Facebook or, you know, surgical collaborative. It's empowering to see other women able to do what you're doing or pushing or supporting you as you're asking a question. And there's a whole network of women out there who are making it okay and that are enabling off Thio to move forward without questioning in ourselves so much or self doubting ourselves. We all belong here, and if we didn't, we wouldn't be in here. Um, sometimes you just gotta convince yourself of that, though. Yeah, And what a struggle sometimes, but still important. There's a little bit if you are looking back at your time in medical school and residency. What is something that you wish you knew when you were looking at what you were planning? No, I wish I knew. There's so much that I wish I knew. I wish Honestly, I wish I could do it all again. I remember sitting in medical school and thinking I this isn't This isn't coming together. Why do I need to know this? And I wish that someone had made the patients Maur of my education. Um, now, this was before we had a lot of standardized patients and patient centered education and small group learning. Um, and I think that different for students now, but it's definitely not perfect. But we didn't learn about patients. We learned about disease and diagnosis, but we never really had a patient to put it on or to learn it with. And so, for me that was missing and and even for myself, I learned that her When I It's more tangible for me. Another reason why I like surgery. I can see my upper. I can see what's working. I can see what's not. And for me, having a patient is different than treating a diagnosis. Um, and I do wish that there was more of that in my education, and I try in my educating of others now to connect my student to a patient, not connect my student to a diagnosis. When you talk arms held that give up, you choosing the HP be construed. Yeah, um, it was a specialty that I didn't get a ton of exposure into. In my early residency. We had a change in our chairman mid residency and my new chairman Waas a lot of pain critical Billy ery, surgeon and he was wonderful. And he became a surgical role model. I'm a personal role model. And now just a friend and mentor. Um, and he opened my eyes to something I didn't even know existed. And so around my fourth year of residency, I decided that that's where I wanted to pursue. And it fit me for a few reasons. I enjoy complexity of case. I enjoy a good open operation. Um, I enjoy ill patients. Um, I don't mean that facetiously, but I'm comfortable taking care of sick patients. Um, critical care, waas. Something that I enjoyed. I enjoyed the physiology of it. I I was always okay and comfortable talking to patients when they were at some of their worst moment. Um, and I felt like I could make some of the biggest impact for people in those moments where I found some people would run away from those moments. I tended to run towards those moments. So the specialty allowed me to personally expose myself to everything that I liked about the field of surgery in the field of medicine together. And that's that's why I picked it. You know, my practice over the years is definitely more of a mixed bag than it was when I first came out of fellowship. Um, and I and I enjoy that. I I enjoy my paddle canker Bobillier work, but I enjoy my general surgery work just as much. I I now work on the robot a fair bit, Um, and for me, that's been a really new horizon professionally, and it's wonderful toe learning technology and apply it to your patients and, um, to give them really great care. And no two cases are are really the same. Um, I've enjoyed that variety, but for when I made my initial choice of HPV, it was accosted, satisfied. A lot of what I enjoyed about medicine and who I am when you maybe there's a better way now. Having had a career melt many years as a practicing surgeon, what was one of the greatest rewards that you found doing that? People? My patient, Um, sometimes it's for cure. Sometimes it's for a smile. Sometimes it's for a small little milestone. You get them to it doesn't matter. Um, that's what it's all about, and for me, that is incredibly fulfilling and rewarding. And that is why I do what I do. I think that's why we all do what we d'oh. Or at least I hope so. Um and yeah, that's why I do what I do. On the flip side of that, what is the greatest challenge that you think you face? The challenge is the business of medicine. Um, you know, I I joke with the students now and you've heard me say it that none of this was in the medical school brochure. Where was all of this? There was no EMR. There was no time constraints. There was no writing notes at midnight, there was no HMO's. There was no insurance approvals, the business of medicine, and it has to exist. But it sometimes is disheartening in the way it currently exists. Then I think of as individuals and as positions as surgeons. But I also part of me as the mom and me and the wife of me. There has to be a better system. We're not there yet. We're not gonna get there tomorrow. We're not gonna get there next year, but I find that to be my most frustrating part of my day. My happy place for me is the operating room. Um, my second happy place for me is being a patient get better in whatever way that means for them or having a positive outcome? Um, my happy place is not arguing with an insurance company. And that is that is the most frustrating part of me. The part of medicine that I didn't really know much about. The part of medicine that nobody taught me the part of the business of medicine. That was kind of this underlying kind of elephant in the room that you knew it was there, but nobody really talked about it. Um, it wasn't part of my education. It wasn't part of my training. Um, and that's still for me. That still is the biggest struggle. Do you think that educating people on the business of medicine is something that we should be doing before they choose the medical profession? Or if it should, if it shouldn't be that way? Um, I think it's hard to educate someone on the business of medicine before they're in it. Do I think that medical schools and residents she should have it as part of their curriculum? Absolutely. Because I think the sooner and earlier we get into curriculum. I think it's more possible for each and every generation that we educate to make an impact on the system, Um, and at an earlier and earlier part in their career, and to make more a meaningful change. But I would imagine that it's hard to teach something you're not a part of, Um and so, you know, I think definitely a part of medical school and residency Creek limbs, but earlier than that, I don't know if it's really possible or meaningful. Okay, yeah, That's an interesting question that I've thought about because I know that something that contributes to a lot of medical students being just confused. You know, when you finally get in here, where's your ship? Was like, Oh my gosh, this is so much different than I really expected. And, um, I don't know that it's possible, like you're saying Thio understand that when when you're in college. But it would be interesting. Yeah, in in regards to the challengers, has there been anyone challenge that's related to being a female in your field? I I don't know if I want E. I don't know if it's a challenge, but I have to say the time constraint for me sometimes are the most struggling. And that's because I don't know if this is just a personal personal how I deal with patients, manage stations or or how female physicians or female surgeons may be a general rule. We kind of all think about a little bit differently. But I'm okay being empathetic with my patient and being compassionate with, um and listening Thio, maybe stuff that may not fall under my bag of tricks. But it's important for my patient, though, you know, just like I listen to my child before they go to bed at night and I tell him, Tell me three things made her happy and three things that made you sad. Today I do that with my kids because it's important for them to talk about that. I do those my patients to, because it's important for them to talk about it very hard to do with the time constraints of the business of medicine. But I haven't changed the way I practice because that's not fair to my patients. I want to practice the way I want to practice medicine, and if that means that I have to bring my computer home at night to write some notes after my kids go to bed. I'll do that because I will not put a computer between me and my patients because I haven't figured out a way. And if somebody has, please let me know how to talk about cancer with the computer screen in front of me, um, or to tell somebody they have good news without being able for them to jump up and give you a hug when you have a computer balanced on your lap. Um, that's just not who I am. Um, so for me, that's probably my biggest challenge, and it's one of my balancing act that I have to deal with, But I'm okay with that. Um, it helps me enjoy the greatest part of my day. Thank you for sharing that. Do you bring that same aspect of computers down or cell phone down or whatever, when you go home and you're with your family? Yeah, we are. It's funny, my each My husband's a computer guy by training and for work, but you know, we don't have a video game machine at home, and my kids have limited screen time, not because they are on their little. My kids were still little there eight and seven, but because I enjoy interacting with my family. So we talk a lot. We play board games a lot and umm and I enjoy that and my kids enjoy it and they would beat me and who know So right? And it's what keeps us going, Um, and I and I want my kids to be able to grow up and be able to have a conversation and shake a hand and look, somebody in the eyes all the things that sometimes I find medical students trouble with, because technology gets in the way of that emotional intelligence. But I think you picked up by engaging people. And so, yeah, I try hard with my kids to keep them connected as people. To me, it's important for me to to stay connected to them. When I'm home with them. My time has to count. Um, I don't want to be home with them and they're in the other room playing on a video game. When I'm home with them, I want them to be with me. Um, I want them tow. Have fun with me because I I'm not there as much of other moms, Other parents. I know that. So for me, I got to make every minute matter. That's so good. Thank you for sharing all that. Oh, my gosh. This poke it and those are things I think are really important to highlight. Um, when considering this was even separate from Madison Just how you're gonna have a family, but then having a family, I have a very, very busy life. Very bad, whole life. And you can do it. You just have to be organized. You have to have a really good support system. But I will share with you that I picked pancake batter out of my hair today on the way to work. But I feel like I was there. But I made it work, right? Maybe, You know, some days are better than others, but those are usually the ones that your kids enjoy the most right, the bunny days where they laughed at him and they tell you about it later in the giggle of other Brady went to bed. And that's making memories on. And it's not always gonna be perfect. And it's not always gonna be like the book Tell us he was gonna be And it's definitely not like Leave it to beaver episode. But if you want a life, so make it, make it what you want it to be, um, and making choices that allow you to do that right? If you join a group or a hospital that doesn't value family or relationships or balance, then it's really hard to get that in a place that doesn't have the cornerstone of what you want. Go find a place that, you know, allowed you to be You you don't have to fight against the tide. And if you want I tied and that's okay. Too hard and women tied with you How about a little thank you in terms of them, a piece of advice that you would have to offer for a woman who is considering medical school or considering her residency, what would you recommend? Be your best self every day and that it is okay to be amazing. I think a lot of women, um, all ages all professions, all levels of education often need permission to be good at their job or to be the one to raise her hand or the one that has the answer or to be the smart one, or to be the one that sits in the front of the room. Don't need permission anymore. Give yourself permission. It's okay to be that girl. It's okay to be that woman. Um, so be it. And we have to keep telling each other that otherwise, you will always be in the back of the classroom. Otherwise, he will always let somebody else answer the question. First, Um, it's okay to be that person. So you gotta You gotta tell your brother that you have to tell yourself that every day. Well, thank you, Dr Van Pot. Thank you for coming and for talking to me and carrying all of your wisdom. This has been absolutely fabulous conversation. I truly appreciate it. Well, thank you for inviting me, and I enjoyed your time very much, Carrion. You know, for all the women listening, um, you have a Johnnie and network of women. All the women that Kerry's interviewed on and all of the other women that you've encountered connected enjoy each other, help each other, support each other, and you reached out if you need anything. Thank you, Carrie.
Thank you, Dr Van Caught for coming on essential wisdom, inspiring future female physicians and for being our guest for this first episode in January of 2020. It was such a good conversation to share in the joys challenges hand the laughter that you have experienced in your life and in your career. So thank you for sharing your thoughts and all of your insight into how to shape and guide young women, um that are pursuing the field of medicine. So I really appreciate your time to everyone out there that's listening. Thank you so much for tuning in for the second series of essential wisdom inspiring future female physicians. And Happy New Year. Welcome back. Like I said earlier, I'm so excited to release episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays throughout the month of January. So please come back. If you really enjoy this episode, you can always go back and listen to the first half of this season. Those were published back in the beginning of the fall time. So please take a peek. There's a cup. There's about five episodes that are out there for you now, Um, and we will continue to release like I said, so make sure to subscribe if you liked us, share us with your family, friends and maybe your Facebook or instagram page. Um, we're available on Instagram as well as online. You can stream the pod gas at Apple podcast at Spotify podcasts or at essential wisdom dot but sprout dot com. You can find out more information about each of the women physicians featured online at essential wisdom inspiring physicians dot com All one word all lower case. No spaces, no dashes. Essential wisdom, inspiring physicians dot com So thank you all so much for coming out. Like I said, Happy New Year and welcome back to the show.