Essential Wisdom: Inspiring Future Female Physicians

Nancy Nekvasil, PhD - Interim President, Saint Mary's College, Past Biology Department Chair, Health Professions Advisor

June 24, 2019 Carrie Dubeau Season 1 Episode 5
Essential Wisdom: Inspiring Future Female Physicians
Nancy Nekvasil, PhD - Interim President, Saint Mary's College, Past Biology Department Chair, Health Professions Advisor
Show Notes Transcript

Dr. Nancy Nekvasil currently serves as the Interim President of Saint Mary’s College, Notre Dame, IN. She holds BS in biology from New Mexico State University and PhD in Biology from the University of Notre Dame and has served for 35 years as faculty, chair of the biology department, and as Health Professions advisor, among many other things at Saint Mary’s College. She has designed and instructed a wide variety of courses, a few of which include “Physiology of women”, “Pathophysiology”, “General Physiology”, “Medical Terminology” and “Research in Biology”. Her research interests include women in stem, physiology education, and pathophysiology. Dr. Nekvasil has a heart for helping college-aged women learn, grow, and achieve. The fruits of her dedication are felt among women across decades that have had the opportunity to learn in her courses and in special situations to be advised by her.

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well, welcome to essential wisdom. Inspiring future female physicians. A podcast for engaging and informing the next generation of women in medicine. My name is carried a bow. I'm 1/4 year medical student at the Frank H. Netter, MD. School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University. Essential wisdom is a podcast for discussing the joys and the challenges off being a woman in medicine through the sharing of stories and advice by women who mentor us. Take a seat with me at the desk of the mentors. Come along, tow, walk the holes of the hospitals to experience residency and life as a physician personally, as we get to know these phenomenal physicians and scientists. Hey, everyone, welcome Thio Essential wisdom Inspiring future female physicians. My name is Carrie, and I'm thrilled that you decided to join us this week. We have a very special treat this week. This is probably the 15th time that I've recorded this introduction because, honestly, I cannot decide which part to begin with. We have the interim college president of ST Mary's College joining us today. Dr Nancy Neck Vasile as an aside, before I dig into her background doctor and as you'll hear me call her throughout the conversation is a mentor to me. Lifelong, um, Ali, starting and call it. So she was my health professions advisor when I was at ST Mary's College and has gone on to become a very dear friend to me since I graduated from the college. She, over the last year and 1/2 has served as the interim college president and has touched a lot of lives. And so I'm very excited to have this conversation. She is well equipped, Thio know and speak about the process of becoming a female physician, and her wisdom is just inspiring. So I'm I'm excited for you to hear this without further ado. Help me Welcome Dr Nancy Next vessel. Dr Neck Whistle currently serves as the interim president of ST Mary's College, Notre Dame, Indiana. She holds a bachelor of science in biology from New Mexico State University and a PhD in biology from the University of Notre Dame. She has served for 35 years as faculty chair of the biology department, health professions adviser and many other roles at ST Mary's College. She has designed and instructed. A wide variety, of course, is a few of which include physiology of women, path of physiology, general physiology and research in biology. Her research interests include women in stem physiology, education and path of physiology. Dr. Neck Vasile has a heart for helping college aged women learn, grow and achieve. The fruits of her dedication are felt among women across decades that have had the chance to learn in her courses and to be advised by her. How often is it that we get to speak with a college president? Friends. This is an incredible chance to welcome Dr Neck Missile to the show. I'm so grateful that she has the time to speak with us today. Dr. Neck Vasile. Welcome to essential wisdom.

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Thank you for having me. Thank you for giving us the time to come to talk today and Adele, from your unique perspective into a conversation about women preparing for health professions preparing for medical school. The way that I like to begin our conversation is, do you just ask you to tell us about your path to becoming a female scientist? I was always drawn to science kinds of things. I loved animals as a kid growing up and I go up in a family that spent a lot of time outdoors and, um, had animals around all the time. So as a child, I always thought I would be a veterinarian. But this sounds really terrible. I decided I probably couldn't do that because I couldn't scan tow watch animals suffer. But I figured I could get a medical school because I get I could see people hurting and I could help him with centrally off. But that's really sort of what I thought. So, um, once I got into high school, I really liked math a lot, so I thought about well, maybe all pursue math, but I found my probably most, um, fulfilling times of figuring things out. So the problem solving the critical thinking when I was in a science class, and so I remember in seventh grade being given some questions on the test that we have never talked about before. But I was able to figure it out from information I knew that was very rewarding to me. And then I was one of the only girls picked as a quiz bowl captain and, you know, it was pitted against all the boys and they went through and picked, of course, all the kids that they thought were smart to be on their teams. And the first person I picked with my best friend, who waas not at all gifted academically. She really struggled. But she was my best friend. Of course I was gonna pick her, and people thought that was really a stupid thing to do. And the boys, I kind of made fun of me. And I was like, Whatever. And we wonderful quiz bowl. Oh, for me Early on, that support of other girls and other women happened in the classroom for me, and probably because I grew up in a family of girls. I have four sisters and brothers, and so that was really my life. Growing up, I had my mom had all sisters and brothers. I have the majority of ants rather than uncle. And so there was just a lot of women around me that just did amazing things. And so I grew up just believing that as a girl, I could do pretty much anything in that I have the support of, you know, grandmother and aunts and my mom and sisters in pursuing whatever sci fi kind of thing I like to do. Did the women in your family pursues science careers? No, they did not. Um, but I had a grandmother who was actually a concert violinist, but she was also a rancher in, so she rode horses and see vaccinated cattle. And, you know, this did all of that kind of thing. You know, when she would go on a cattle drive, I had an aunt to, um they were about the same age. They were both born before New Mexico was even a state. So they were born in the early 19 hundreds. And this aunt would, um she was very artsy, and she actually became a teacher and top school for many, many years. But if she needed to, you know, have some colors to do something, um, she would get plants, and she would figure out howto kind of extract the color from the plant to make whatever it was that she needed the color for to do her arts and crafts. I mean, I just There were just women around me that just get these really awesome things, and it was all about just using your mind and kind of figuring things out and using what you had at hand and making do with that. And so I was surrounded by women who weren't afraid to try. Mmm. But it's incredible inspiration to see while you're going up into that form at a time. Yes. Yeah. And it seems like just me knowing you and, um, how this plays out into your life. It part of that that has carried through is this idea that you want to figure problem about and attack things head on and learn with your brain in a really unique way. Yes. And I don't think I ever thought about it too much until I had Children and I would begin tow, watch them exploring the world and knowing that rather than doing something for them as hard as it was to sit back and watch them struggle, it was really important for them to do that and figure out how to get things done. And that accomplished two things. Number one. It really developed their creative thinking in their imaginations and problem solving, but it also built extreme confidence in them. It's so important. Um, did that ever shift for you when you began your career than in science when you were achieving your Ph. D. Um, did you ever have a shift in your inspiration by within or feel, you know, that maybe things were more difficult than you anticipated? No, I have to say that I think I'm one of those very fortunate women who, either because I kind of have blind faith in people. I tend to be just a really optimistic person, and I have a lot of trust in people, whether I should or shouldn't. And so entering into the science is finally deciding to pursue a PhD. I just never thought much about it. I just went for it. And, um, there was maybe one time when there was a male PhD student who came back who had not finished, and I felt like, Well, why is my adviser giving him more attention than me? That's weird. And then I didn't let it go because my father is in on the interview today. It didn't really matter, but I remember thinking that and then, um in retrospect, once I started into my teaching career, realized that my advisor Waas a little bit gender biased. But at the time I just didn't even think about it. I had other things, you know? I loved school, and I loved the teaching that I was doing. And, you know, I had a husband at home I didn't get have my first child, But, um, you know, my my thoughts were elsewhere, So I didn't dwell on the fact that he was sometimes maybe not this kind of he should have been, huh? Um, and largely I didn't even notice it. Truthfully, I think that's a great skill, right? I mean, to be able to just kind of charge head forward. And he's so confident. And I want to say, confident that still believing in your goals that you know, you don't necessarily think about all the biases. I think that's actually pretty amazing right now, I think to recognizing that this is something that I learned through the years. I don't know that I knew it when I was really young, starting a PhD program, but really came toe know this as I progressed that there wasn't anything I could do about how he was behaving or his responses to me that all I could do was was alter me and my responsible. No. You know, if there was something I needed to do to rev up, you know, my experiments or the timing of things or to be more productive than I needed to do that. When I started to write my dissertation, it was a total blow because I always thought it was a good writer and my my first draft to my advisor waas crashing. Oh, my goodness. He just let all over it rather than, you know, folding into a ball and just, you know, there I just I thought OK, how do I approach this? Well, I I figure out why he's telling me this stuff. Um, that was hard, like, I It took me a couple of days, but I just went through step by, Step on. I went back and just rewrote and followed. You know, more of his template. And the more I did that, the more I thought, Well, you know, he's probably right. I'm writing this more like a creative story instead of a scientific research paper and because he's published the Julian papers. So I need to pay attention. And so that's what I did. And I just didn't throw much on the fact that he was pretty, pretty merciless in his peak. Me and then, Um finally one day I went to him and I said, I I think I've done enough. I'm ready to finish And he had been he had been treating me pretty poorly and he looked at me and he says, Well, it's about time you decided to finish Well, okay, that's it's a rain. Of course I'm finishing. So I just I don't know if it's just that, you know, I did, but I thought I needed to do and I just didn't do well much on the other stuff, and I just tried to keep my focus in relationship to that. Can you talk about whether or not that impacted your confidence and how you dealt with confidence in that situation? I think so. I I was always one who was fearful of risk and, you know, stepping out and may be failing and I again I don't know if that have to do with anything relative to my upbringing, their first order, any of that sort of stuff. I know there's lots of ideas about things like that, but, um, it's interesting that I have confidence in areas that I just didn't even think about. Um, so just to give you an example, I would spend time in the summer out on my grandparent's ranch. And, um, I just I started driving a jeep when I was about 12 or 13 and I didn't You ever think about it? I just had confidence. It was like I could do this. I watched my father drive a stick shift for years. I don't have to do this. You listen to the way the engine revs and when it's revved up to a certain amount, you do that shift because I used to listen to that. I used to swallow when he would do that, but it's oh, so I have a lot of confidence and stuff like that. I just never thought about that. But then when it came to, um, you know, just like auditioning for something or kind of putting myself out there, I was very much not willing to do things like that. That was very, very scary to me. So, um, pursuing my degree, I was confident in academics. I loved academics. I I did well in was successful there about that. I was confident doing putting myself out, too, you know, like, I don't know, apply for a job and move out east type stuff that that would have been very hard for me. But I have a very big face. I believe that the Lord has, you know, planned my path that I think he knew that. And so I was always in a situation where it was a little bit out my comfort zone, A little bit of a risk, but not so much of a risk that I was scared to death. None that I could take the next step and then take the next step of them. Um, really see God's hand in living me along through life. I wonder if you could talk a little bit, then about how, when you this is jumping to perform forward and I don't really need to be going in order, I guess. But then, when he became really the health professions of either ST Mary, how did these experiences translates to house searches, advising young woman? I, of course. You know, having had all these sisters. Um, I'm being in the middle. I was kind of the one that you know was, um, best friends with the two sisters older than me and with the two sisters younger than me. So I kind of had that role in my life family. But in the four years between college and graduate school, I worked in clinics and hospitals and all of that. So I gained a lot of knowledge just on the job. First hand, you know, watching people. I think he's a very, very fortunate that because I was in school, probably mostly, the physicians would let me go into the operating room where they would let me be in the nursery with newborn things like that. So I got so much experience with the medical profession and what a life was like a medical professional and not just positions but nurses on those were the two main ones. There weren't many others that I really interacted with. I don't think so. When I had the opportunity to take over the house professional advisor at ST Mary's, I felt really, really confident of that, and I I felt like I not only understood personality, wise what it would take, but also the academic fervor and creativity and a desire to know and curiosity. And so I felt like I could do a good job helping students achieve their goals and just working closely with them. And, you know, kind of that first hand knowledge of having been in that setting for four years while I was between degrees in the process of advising many young women over time is there is there, um, this is gonna sound so silly, like a little must follow in your head. Or are they just like, Okay, I'm gonna listen to this girl and then we're gonna go from there. It's really always I listened and then go from there. I don't think that there's a particular rule book with the exception of understanding and knowing the classes that are needed and then ask things changed through the years adjusting to that and figuring out how best to advice students in that regard. But, um, really, it's about what she brings to the table what she has to offer. And, um, I think for me thinking about writing a personal statement, it's kind of like that. It's like you have to know the person well to help write a good personal statement, I think, because when you then read the personal statement for women because women have such a hard time talking about themselves, they do not brag about themselves easily. And I shouldn't even use the word bag because it's not that women tend to be very stuff effacing and they don't want to necessarily put himself out there. So it's really hard to write personal statements. So for me, knowing them well helped me to help them write a personal statement because then I could prompt them by, you know, these kinds of things that I see you D'oh! I watched you in the classroom, Do this, this and this And I see your problem solving. And while you're not quick to give the answer, you do support others when they give that answer. And so I see you as this supportive, you know? So it's that kind of thing worth pretty personal, actually, um, sort of observation of that student. And so for me, the advising was always that kind of thing. I actually have always wondered, and I know it happens effectively because women get into medical school and health professions programs from really large universities But I think that that has to be harder in some ways, because people how do people really know them Well, like, how did they get really good letters of recommendation? So, I mean, the medical schools have to figure that out themselves. But for me being able to give that personal touch that personal advice, that personal sort of encouragement and prompt along the way was really an important thing for me to do for my students. I mean, what an amazing gift that you give them, though, like even if you're at whether it is small in your big institution, not every person is able to give so much reflection and so much really truthful evaluation of students. So I mean that I myself and I'm sure many are very grateful for that. So that's a really special gift, just awesome. It is very much a blessing to be able to have that kind of a relationship. It's students and to help them achieve their goals, that that's just an incredible thing to share in that one of the things that I know you're interested in, and it's given rise like a similar idea on my podcast, is how we can continue to support that college aged woman who's trying to gain and, um, become empowered at a young age, you know, she begins to develop the skills she needs to contribute to the medical field and so many other science profession. So I wonder if you could just talk about some of your interest in women in them and and what you love about it. I just think that, um, Tim is just an area where if you have a curiosity and you know, you think creatively, But you are just, you know, in awe of the waste that things work and you know, the mechanics of something or something like that. It is absolutely both the place for you to be as a thinker. And I think that women bring a very unique perspective so that I think that and I have two boys. So I could say this Honestly, I have two boys and one girl. That boy's just tend to be a lot more sort of black and white, you know, look at things kind of in a straight line. Women, we, they leave their socks around sales, the intertwine, their thoughts, and so I have four granddaughters and they watch them. The nine year old. I watch her bending down in the grass and looking at the blaze, and I was just recently visiting in Tennessee, visiting damage. She called me over and she said, Look at this and I couldn't even see it. It was so tiny. And so what I'm pointing to. She was playing to a little blade of grass that it poked through a broad leaf of a clogger. You were so tiny you couldn't even see it. She she's nine years old. She is so detail oriented. And then she was watching these on the flower. And so she was thinking what she could just she could transfer the pollen herself be could do that. She could do that. So she's wiping the pollen on their fingers, and then she's biting it onto another. Actually answer. And so I said, Well, that's really not the part. This is the This is the girl part. That's the boy part. This is the girl part. So she really house got a paper and started getting the pollen off of the answers and then rubbing it on the dickman me now it's up to me. And that's how girls think. Girls are just like, Why are their tiny little hairs on a torrential a lake? You know, boys air like catch the French LaRouche, you know, with there's a very, very different And so I love just developing that, like in them in the girls. I don't know if my grand girls do science. That doesn't even matter. My daughter didn't do fine, but but my daughter, very detail oriented. She's very curious. She loves the problem solved. And so that is such a gift for stim. And I think that how women approach research problem is so unique, not to mention the fact that they really support each other in that endeavor. There's much less of this push the other person down to climb the ladder. In women, women support each other and encourage each other, and everybody's going for their individual goal that they're walking together, linked arm in arm so that they all reach further together than a single person trying to blaze the path alone. And and that's just what I love. I love about how women think, how they work together, how they, you know, process things. And like I said, it's just more of a weaving of things that come together. And then just a straight shot. Sort of this is it black and white. Okay, Levander Vexing boy thing. Absolutely. Like what you're talking about is the amazing gift of, like, the feminine thought process. Yes, it was totally different. It is Absolutely. But that, um Okay, so in terms of then fostering that beautiful thought process in college aged women, what are some of the skills that you think are important for them to learn when they're preparing themselves? After this? Dunfield. I think not being afraid to take a risk. And for me, that hits close to home. Because that was something that in many ways, taking a risk was hard for me in an academic setting. It wasn't because I was confident in myself in an academic setting. I had had a lot of good successes in my school years, growing up in a lot of teachers who are very supportive of me and helped me develop my confidence. But we don't know. We see that with college age women. And so for them, I think helping them develop a confidence So that's why for me, it was really important to be at a small college. Be able to teach where I could interact with my students one on one. And so as soon as I realized that a student might be having trouble with an exam or something like that so important for me to be ableto have a talk with her one on one and help her to see that actually she was being very successful. There was just maybe one little saying that she needed tweak. And I don't claim to understand about learning disabilities or things like that. But I'm just talking about healthy. Ah, woman gained enough confidence that she can then stretch herself and and be willing to step outside of that comfort. So I think that that's something that women mentors I really need to do for young women because everybody comes to the table with a very different experience of very different lens, and just to be ready to help those women see where their gift fly. None of them to recognize those gifts, help them to recognize that. Hey, you have an undeveloped talent here that you probably don't even know you have, Um I recently was able to have some timeless a great knees who was 15 years old, and she doesn't feel like she fits into the world. She she's different in many ways. Um, but she Oh, my goodness. She loves animals. And she know so much about all these different animals. Anyway, she was telling me about her gecko that she owns, and she you know, her boa that she owns. I really said to her one, What would you like to do? And she was talking about, Well, she could only go to college, hear such and such, Because their parents wouldn't let her, you know, go away from home. And I don't I don't know how much of that is true or not. That's my niece. And I would be hard pressed to think that she really thought that. But anyway, maybe our was a little bit scared, so I just said to her Well, regardless of where you go, what is it you'd like to do? Oh, I don't know. I might be a teacher. That's okay. That's great. But tell me about your animal. She got a better animals. So I said, OK, if you could do anything in the world, you know? No, No holds barred. No money. Doesn't matter. What what would you do? I'd be a herpetologist. She started talking and I told her I said Okay. Not only do you need to go to college, you need to get a PhD in herpetology, but you are. So I spent two or three days talking to her about that, and she just I mean, I don't know if she really believed me, huh? I I hope that her confidence began to grow because she's amazing. She's just absolutely amazing. And, you know, that's where her passion is. And that's for me. That's what she needs to try to develop it. Because if she sees an animal or a reptile or something that she liked, she will go look it up. And in in 15 minutes you will know everything about that animal. It's it's really incredible and amazing Hunt watch her brain work, but she's really limiting herself right now with the way that she's thinking about. And she's 15 right? You know, for me how I think, okay? Part of my role. You know, I'm an aunt. I meant her family. Part of my role is to help her think outside that sort of confined. But she thinks that she could do beyond high school what is important than to be able to offer women just to say like, Hey, look, you have these gifts, you know, and that, like, this takes me back exactly what you were saying before of mentorship meeting. To be personal, be able to say that absolutely fabulous. Um, in terms of how your role in that physiologist in a professor and a faculty member, um advisor has no developed what is one of the greatest rewards that you think you received one of the best gift of that job? Absolutely. Hands down, one of the best. Guess what I see. I'm gonna cry. What I would advice, succeed. And when I see her gain that you know, acceptance to medical school or dental school of at school, a graduate school or when I see her, you know, get that award for something that she's done and that we just have a reunion recently in.

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was able to re meet in Andrea clean with so many former students and the things that they're doing just amazing in it. It's an overwhelming thing, and I don't know many people in their lives. You have the opportunity like I have been given in this role now that I am that I'm playing to come back around full circle and have a peek in on the life of these women that I would so blessed to teach as undergraduates and see them now, you know, practicing physicians. And, you know, I just if it's just unbelievable I graduation. I was able to, um, shake the hands and give awarded diplomas to four women who are in our doctor reversing practice program. I had had them. Is undergraduates in physiology? I talked them. If they have a passel, physiology has graduate students, and I awarded them their diplomas. Oh, be in peace. And that's wow. I mean, I don't know many people that get to do that, but watch these women just, you know, reach their goals and just continue to make a difference in the world, and then then then to turn around and help others. Thank you, doctor and or all that you do to make those goals achievable, you know, because the gift of a mentor that says yes to you that says, Hey, you can do this because you want to him I told you times before, But the just the sprout of an idea, you know? Oh, I think I want to be a doctor having somebody and whether it's a mentor or a family member or, you know, like what you're saying about your great knees. Just say yes to you that you can accomplish this and and then help you grow and develop those gifts and celebrate those things. Oh, my gosh, there's just nothing better. So very grateful for that as well. Well, it's a blessing to me. I have so many more questions and we're gonna run out of time here. So I'm sorry. I'm talking too much. No, I could I could talk to you for probably like, four hours. So, in terms of how you got your priorities as a female, um, in your career, because you've had a career through motherhood and all of the gift of life of being a woman, have they changed over time? How do you choose? Is that your priority? Uh, my priority, first and foremost, is to be obedient to my Lord and I firmly believe that God has directed my path, and it's my responsibility to listen to that every day and to know that the best way that I can honor him is to, um, you know, follow where he's leading and and go through the doors that he's opened. I firmly believe that that's how I came to ST Mary's and even to the place of being this position right now, it's really just a matter of that. The second thing is that, um, my family always comes first, and I think when you keep priorities straight that it actually helps you do, then the work that you're called to do and so interactions with other people. You know, my work is colored by the fact that family come first. So when I have someone who you know, a vice president or somebody that comes to me and says this is such as happened, it's not even a question. I don't have to stop that thing. Well, what is the work? You have to get them. I don't know if I can tell you, you can leave because we have this work to get done. What I say is family come first. You need to do that and we will figure out a way and get always gets done. The work always gets done. It's not a compromise because it helps them that person come back then and give their best because they were able to care for the meet with the family. Because more than anything, as women, we're we're tourney by the needs of our family. We just are. That's how we're built. And so if we're able to be in a situation where we can care for that and that's something that I think it helps, you know, and I think we need men and women and everything. So I hope this doesn't sound like I don't think that we need men around. But it's so helpful when you have women in a structure where you are working and where you are operating because there is that support where if you have to go do something because of family situation, then the other women step in and they help cover, and then when you come back, it's good and it works and you're not punished for doing that and, um so I've tried to keep that focus and, um, raising my Children. It was really important for me to raise strong, independent, courageous, faith filled Children. Man, to do that, I had to be there. So it meant that I had Thio maybe not do as much research as others were doing, but it never effectively. I was still tenured and promoted and then promoted to full professor. It never caused any harm to me, too. Care for my family first. Wow, Beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. And, um, reflecting on how all that is so important. That's advice I've never actually heard before. So I just thought that so thank you. Um, in terms of our last question, a piece of advice for women preparing for either medical school or in college trying to figure out their them for medicine. Medical career, I think. The biggest piece of devices to buying mentors who support you find people who know you and who are, you know, there to support you. Not not to lie to you. If if there's something that you're not doing well or there's a gift that's required that you don't have not surround yourself with someone who's just gonna tell you what you want to hear, but surround yourself with women who are honest with you but who genuinely love you. And and I want you to be successful because then you'll be successful no matter what you choose to do, and they will help you get there. They will help you find that path, and they will step back and let you walk and let you gain that confidence you need to gain. And when you're kind of slipping and falling a little bit, they'll step up and help you. And so I think, finding that support system, maybe it's a mom. Maybe it's ah, mentor of professor of sister. You know, it could be a relative of not relative, Um, but you'll, you know, you find those gym along the way, you know that they will always be there for you, no matter. And I think that is that is key because we doubt ourselves, you know, And we have time. We're really, really hard to take that next step. And sometimes you just need somebody to just just hold you up. You know, it's kind of that thing again about linking arms, you know, your fleet harmed. You say OK, you're really down and out, Okay, I'll lay down with you and I'll be there with you. And when you're ready to give up, I'll get up with you and we'll walk together and I think that's really important. And then I think it's important for us to do it for the next person.

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Thank you, Doctor Neck Krystle, for coming on. Essential wisdom, inspiring future female physicians and sharing all of your thoughts. I don't know about the other listeners out there, but I'm a little bit shook after that episode. What a beautiful testament to supporting women in stem to supporting women in science and to supporting women in medicine. So thank you, Dr Neck myself for sharing your wise and just very beautiful words. Your sentiments were so, so, so appreciated. And I know that the listeners out there I feel the same way. So thank you to all my listeners. Thank you for tuning in for Episode five of essential Wisdom. As you know, this is the first of our series of research scientists. This is two episodes of research scientists. This was number one. Our second one's coming up on Thursday So I hope you are enjoying a little bit of a different perspective on preparing to go to medical school and preparing to become a doctor. So this is a fun episode for me to record. I hope you enjoyed it too. If you did, please consider sharing this podcast with a friend. Um, it really helps to disseminate this information to continue the conversations. And I would really appreciate it if you could do that. Don't forget to subscribe. You can find us on apple podcasts and on Spotify podcasts. You can follow us on our website at inspiring essential wisdom. Oops, sorry. That's my instagram. Oh, my gosh, By the way, everyone, I have an instagram Find me on instagram inspiring essential wisdom. The website is essential wisdom inspiring physicians dot com. The Web site link for the podcast is essential wisdom dot bust out dot com And I think that's all of my announcements for the week. So if you didn't notice, this is a little surprised that I had two episodes today, So I hope you have a great Monday and looking forward to our next focus of episode on Thursday. So thanks for tuning and everybody have a great week