Essential Wisdom: Inspiring Future Female Physicians

Roberta Lockhart, MD - Pediatrics

January 09, 2020 Carrie Dubeau Season 1 Episode 8
Essential Wisdom: Inspiring Future Female Physicians
Roberta Lockhart, MD - Pediatrics
Chapters
Essential Wisdom: Inspiring Future Female Physicians
Roberta Lockhart, MD - Pediatrics
Jan 09, 2020 Season 1 Episode 8
Carrie Dubeau

Dr. Lockhart practices Pediatrics in Milford, CT. She attended Youngstown State University for undergraduate and earned her MD from Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine. Dr. Lockhart completed her residency at Children’s Hospital Medical Center of Akron. She is active as a faculty preceptor at Quinnipiac University, where she mentors and trains medical students in early clinical experiences and third/fourth year clinical rotations. Dr. Lockhart is interested in childhood behavior and development. She loves to travel, spend time with her family, and read. 

Show Notes Transcript

Dr. Lockhart practices Pediatrics in Milford, CT. She attended Youngstown State University for undergraduate and earned her MD from Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine. Dr. Lockhart completed her residency at Children’s Hospital Medical Center of Akron. She is active as a faculty preceptor at Quinnipiac University, where she mentors and trains medical students in early clinical experiences and third/fourth year clinical rotations. Dr. Lockhart is interested in childhood behavior and development. She loves to travel, spend time with her family, and read. 

spk_1:   0:00
welcome to essential wisdom. Inspiring future female physicians. Ah, podcast for engaging and informing the next generation of women in medicine. My name is carried a bow. I'm 1/4 year medical student at the Frank H. Netter, MD. School of Medicine at Quinnipiac University. Essential wisdom is a podcast for discussing the joys and the challenges off being a woman in medicine through the sharing of stories and advice by women who mentor us. Take a seat with me at the desk of the mentors, come along, tow, walk the holes of the hospitals to experience residency and life as a physician personally, as we get to know these phenomenal physicians and scientists. Hello, everyone. And welcome back to essential wisdom, inspiring future female physicians. My name is Carrie, and I'm excited that you decided to join us this week. Today will be welcoming Dr Roberta Lockhart to the show. Dr. Lockhart practices Pediatrics in Milford, Connecticut. She attended Youngstown State University for undergraduate and earned her MD from northeastern Ohio University's College of Medicine. Dr. Lockhart completed her residency at Children's Hospital Medical Center of Akron. She's active as a faculty precept er at Quinnipiac University, where she mentors and trains medical students in early clinical experiences as well as third and fourth year clinical rotations. Dr. Lockhart is interested in childhood behavior in development. She loves to travel, spend time with her family and read, Dr Lockhart, welcome to essential wisdom.

spk_0:   1:44
Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate this opportunity. Thank you for coming and being willing to share your story. The way that I like to start ever interview is to ask you to tell us about your path to becoming a female physician. What? That sort of interesting? Because, um, it's what happened in some ways serendipitously. All my life, I wanted to be a teacher and a librarian. And, um I have when I was 10 years old, I had some surgery on my hip and I don't have no idea that's really planted the seed for me or not, but really didn't fall into becoming a physician until my high school years where I thought that, um, you know, becoming a teacher would be great in something in the medical field. So I originally planned on going to nursing school and getting a PhD nursing so that I could teach and about the same time I was talking about this. My mother saw an ad in the newspaper four brand new six year bachelor science medical degree program. That was a stone's throw from where I lived. And so she said, If you're gonna apply, um yourself to get a PhD nursing and teach, why don't you apply for this program? And I said, Okay, so I did. And that's what started my medical career because I got into it was in the first class of this new medical school program. And, um, that's how I got into medicine, actually, So it wasn't one of those lifelong I want to be a doctor type of deals. It was something that I can't really put my finger on, what it was that triggered my interest in medicine that made me go down that path when I was in high school. But that was sort of the timing of it. Did you ever considered other Rome's for teaching, like teaching science? There was immediate No. Now it just went from I want to be a teacher. A librarian, too. Okay, I got into this new program, will give it a try. Um, it works. It works. And if it doesn't, there's nothing lost. And, um so that's how I, you know, went into, uh, went into the whole six year B S and D program. Anyone in mind? Well, anyone in your family and medicine? No. I had one cousin who was a nurse, but they were all blue collar steel workers or teachers. And that problem, that was really the extent of professionalism that I was exposed to when I was growing up. Most of my family didn't have college degrees. They were either, like, stay at home moms or, like you said, Dad worked in the steel mills. That was sort of how you know, we all grew up and you entered that program. What was it like given that it was six years Do all Polident medical till, you know, I think sometimes ignorance is bliss because I went into it kind of not really realizing what I was getting into. So, um, I think the big difference is doing traditionally was the fact that for most of the six years we went to school, about 11 and 1/2 months a year. So we compressed the undergraduate part and we go the medical for nine months and then do some undergrad, So that was interesting. I get to not really knowing what to expect. The other thing was, it was a consortium between three state universities and, um, as you mentioned, I went to Youngstown State and the way they had it set up that campus waas they were just 14 of us in all our classes. They set up a special curriculum for us, and so there was no it. Nobody else, no outsiders in those key classes. So that was kind of downside to doing it that way. So I joined a sorority to try to expand my friend group and then learned, uh, you know, none of the people when I did some elective, which were few and far between, so and they were only kind of 1/2 a step ahead of us not only curriculum wise, but also went to medical school. Um, the building was there. It was built on an old apple farm, but it wasn't completed. So we had to wait until our second semester to get down into the anatomy lab. And, um, they weren't done with lecture hall. So the 45 students in the first class because when we all came together in the school were down in the front of the lecture hall while they were hammering at the back of the lecture hall so that we were coddled to some degree, they want to make sure that we were successful. And so we have really close relationships with all of our professors and with the dean and the Provo. So I think that made it nice a minute and a unique experience, Um, going through medical school. So would you say it because it was a new program that mentorship and that experience with the professors and means etcetera was very important for how you, right. I think they were very supportive and it wasn't really female male type of thing. It waas because most of our professors were were males either PhDs or MDs, but it was just like, Okay, we want These are prying candidates. We want them to be successful, and so we would go over their houses for dinner. Um, you know, they would, um, way would go out with them, you know, to like conferences and things. So it really was kind of a well rounded experience and I didn't know about, like this all the women in medicine stuff. When I first started, I didn't figure why I'm here. You know, what's the big deal? But then you sort of got to hear things. And when you talk to positions that were already working on the hospital or practices, then it started to come to my realization that maybe there is still some difference. And I always refer to the glass ceiling. And, um and so I became involved, um, with American Medical Women's Association branch. And it was small because we were a brand new school. Um, And then when I graduated, I became the director of the woman in Memphis. Some program at my medical school. So that opened up some new, um, horizons and that as well and getting to talk to people in other parts of the country in learning that, um, you know, for a lot of women, it still was hard, and we're talking right back in the 19 eighties. That was a while. You think? How do you think that's changed till today? Today I think it depends on my opinion. If it depends on the specialty. I think you didn't sell. What specialties are women Most, um, inclined to go into pediatrics is one, um, so I think that it's in general pediatrics. If you're in practice, I don't feel it. But there's a big difference, I think. Probably I can't speak from experience, obviously. But in academia, if you need to publish, if you need to do research, if you need to do clinical if you have these institutional expectations, I would imagine it's a little bit different as far as, um, in a male versus female, because I think there's a lot of things that are just still old school and still a lot of old ideas. Unfortunately, Yeah, absolutely yes, really. One of my favorite things about doing this broadcast is that everybody has such a different journey to become anything was going on. And so that really, oftentimes highlights exactly what you're talking about. For example, Okay, I'm an academic. How do I e? Maybe down on having a life and also being very productive as a researcher vs being a pediatrician, which you have a huge practice. You're very busy, but right, Although that does change the dynamic of how your then proceed, right? And our practice. We were lucky in that. You know, even though some days it doesn't feel like, you know, my practice takes over my life, we could step away from it. You know, we can step away for after an afternoon to go see our kids football game. We can step away, you know, four day to go to a conference. So we have control over how how much we work, and and we all since we all have that control, we all we don't take advantage of each other. You know, Simon, I mean, I think I'm in kind of a unique situation. Where were the owners of our practice? And we call the shots individually but cognizant of not taking advantage of the other partners where some people, if you're in a practice, it's owned by a company. Or, you know, if you're in a practice that's based in the hospital, I think the experience would be much different. Would be harder because of institutional expectations, to kind of do the things that we do to step away, you know, to be the things that you want to be out because you have to be at work you have to produce. You have to be there so many hours because they got the listeners. Did you share a little bit about your practice and what it look like? Our practice has been in existence for over 60 years. Um, and it was started by, um, Thio, the physicians. And there's only been two female physicians in the whole history of Milford Pediatric Group myself and another woman that was there temporarily that left because her husband, who's a cardiologists, got a job in another state. So, um, it started out with two physicians that you were kind of back in the day. You made house calls and, um, you know, you were available pretty much 24 7 and on. And then it evolved into one the first practices that had extended hours. So when the two of them, um, so became popular and the practice expanded, they thought it was better for them to stay in the office and people to come to them, um, as opposed to going and making house calls. So they were more available to more people, so they were kind of, um, trail blazers with regard to evening and weekend hours and basically for pediatricians for 10 years. Practitioners, Uh, And if I was caught like a practice without walls because even though we sort of each of us tend to have our group of patients, people can go back and forth, We see each other patients when we're on call, and, um and then we just rotate, call me, rotate our knights on on call. So, um, we rotate hospital rounds, etcetera. So it works. I mean, it worked. It worked when there were six of us doing it. It works when? Now that there's just four of us doing it. So, um, you know, I'm pretty lucky in that regard that, um you know, somebody's out for personal reasons beyond their control on with the rest of us. Just step in and take over and because you know that if you're in that position where you need to suddenly take time off or be a way that everybody else is going to come to your to your aid so that it's really nice and in that regard as well. But it's a very busy practice, and, um, we see average, you know, on a regular day. We're seeing well visits. Depending on the position, we can see anywhere from 20 to 30 some kids in a day, and then when we're on call, that number can go up to 40 50 60 70 in a day, depending on the time of the year. But in the day, I'm talking about maybe leaving the office at 11 o'clock or midnight. So it's quite busy, you know, and somewhat, you know, does someone unpredictable. So, um, you know, juggling in home and office Sometimes even now, I can be a bit of a challenge. Um, so when you're home, you're home, you know? And when you're with your kids, you're with your kids. So I've always thought that it was a quality of time spent vs the quantity of time, your tactics that busy when you had kids at home? Yes. Yeah, I work. Just work just as much then as I do now. The only difference is when they were younger. I took 1/2 a day off, okay? In the week, but, um, we had a nanny who was about three minutes from my office. Still, I would take the kids into her. Um and, uh, they would spend the day at her house and was basically it was just them. And, um and then I think she was really flexible so I could drop them off any time. You know, my husband or I can pick them up anytime. Um and so I couldn't have done what I did without a person like her, but they had to be in a traditional daycare or something. It wouldn't work. Yeah, only more stress. We are, warn World. The idea of outsourcing has come up in my conversations. And however that look, whether it's like ordering meals or somebody to help you with right cleaning or actually having a nanny on, which seems very common, I think that's a very important thing that people don't go. It is. And I think you sort of have to pick and choose where you want to have your focus. I mean, obviously, you put all this time and effort into becoming a physician. That obviously is the main focus on your day to day life. But, um, it doesn't, in my opinion, shouldn't dictate your life. And it doesn't define who you are. I mean, you are somebody who happens to be a physician. But, um, if you, you know you have to be ableto say Okay, What? What What am I if I take that MD away? So you have to really, um can define who you are outside of being a physician. And sometimes it takes a lot of effort and thought it just doesn't happen. And I think that's where a lot of people get consumed with work and saying, I'm so busy, I can't do this, I can't do that And then, like, kind of passes you by. I think that's really powerful, especially for people, a nice stage and even pre med. Because, you know, you spend all these years thinking, Ah, no, what will Michael will be like and what am I doing? And at the same time, you know you're doing extracurriculars and things, but often times those were just I don't want to just build your CV, but those yourself as a candidate for your interest, right? So, you know, sometimes you get lost in that, and then at the end of the day, it's hard to sit back and think, OK, what am I actually interested in? Besides her medicine and decide for my research interest. Right you for so many years of our lives, Regis. We focus on becoming a physician and everything that's entailed with that. And I think, and that's what I find with the student Quinnipiac. I would love to hear their stories and what they do and that into here, people, you know, that violin players or somebody who you know, coach's football or someone used in the military that goes away, you know, a weekend or a month. I mean, it's just and I really think that's really important. Somebody left to right Somebody who loves to paint. Um, you know that the challenge show that they had a couple of years ago? I mean, look at all the talent that's like staring us in the face and that people are continuing to follow those those avocation. Follow those passions, anything that's really important for you to keep balancing for your sanity. You have to have something you can go to, um, outside of medicine. Absolutely. And now actually, take mi Teoh question. I usually have a leader, but then, in terms of using no things to make you kind of saying it's it's the same idea of then how do you balance? Which I think we're talking about. But what are your thoughts on the idea of balance and how you set priorities? So I think, you know, it's always been my family first, Um and you know, my practice second. So I was on my career seconds. I was fortunate again having a really supportive husband who retired early and having this nanny made it easier. So, you know, if my kids were sick and they couldn't go to school, I didn't have to stress about that. I knew that. You know, my nanny would take them no matter what. And, um, so that eased up that sort of pressure not worrying about what this happens. What if that happens? We're not. A lot of people have that. And, um and and then trying to like it should be present. So when I was home, regardless of how tired, I was always trying Thio two get out of the doctor room into the mother. Well, I mean, I never forget one time he didn't do that very well. And my young son came up to me and hand me a $5 bill and he said, Mommy, I'll give you this if you come and play with me. And that made such an impression, um, and caught me up short that it was like, darn it, you know, out of the mouth of babes because I was more focused on whatever it was that I was doing that was more work oriented, you know, on my afternoon off with him and not really focusing on him. So he loud I mean, he's almost 20 years old now, you know, because remember when I said that to you, Mom and I said, Yeah, I remember. I remember. So you have those moments and I mean, I don't think there's anyone formula for getting that balance. Or sometimes even now, I feel like I'm really good at it. I'm really on top of my game, you know, I finished in the office. I leave that behind. I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. And then the next week, just kind of all falls apart. So I think that that sort of human nature and that there's gonna be some ups and downs, but something The other thing, too, is you just have to learn to let go and not be fanatical about, you know, not being necessary fanatical about a clean house or a clean car. Or, you know, having things done in a certain way and whatever. If you can delegate, if you can afford it, you have somebody clean your house. You have somebody do your clothes. You know you have somebody you know help to take care of your kids. But there's not one thing. One thing that could work for everybody, that's the problem. But like I said before, you have to figure out what it was you passion about what makes you feel good and even if it just sort of sitting outside in a rocking chair and staring at the backyard, I mean, if you do that for 10 minutes, that's okay and not feeling guilty, I think that's the other part of it That's even hard for me, is doing something for myself and not feeling guilty about it. You know, thinking like I should be doing this for work or I should be doing this for my husband or, you know, I should be doing this for my kids. So that's one thing. I still, you know, still continue to work on. Yes, I've been released about I'm sure many people cannot there, you know, it's really hard to tell yourself. Oh, yeah. My time was very just didn't do whatever tells me is really worth. And you have to have these. Otherwise, you could burn out, you know, or all she can start to resent the life that you chose. You've chosen, you know, as far as your career goes. So you don't want to get to that point. I mean, being a doctor is hard enough. Um, you know, without sort of that burnout back during you read all kinds of articles about that. And, um, you just have to be cognizant of how much energy you have and how you're gonna spend that energy, not only on a daily basis, but you know, as the years go on, when you, um look back at your experience, medical school are beyond that. Is there something that you wish you had known when you were diving into becoming a doctor? I just wish I would have known what it was like to be a doctor. You know, if they're I wish that I would have had somebody to say. Well, you know, this is what you go through. This is what your struggles are. Um, but this is what? What? You get up the other. And, you know, like I said before, it kind of went into a blindly and maybe somebody that was good. I don't know, you know, but, um, I sort of learned along the way, so I think that if I would have had, um, someone like a mentor, you know, somebody that Not that tell me how to do it or what to do, but just somebody that had walked in those shoes that can stay. Yeah. You know, this is what you know, that somebody might happen. This is what you might feel. You know, Um, this may happen on this rotation. That may happen on that rotation. You know, you might be sleep deprived. Whatever the case may be. Just have being a little bit. Have a little bit of a heads up. When I had none of that. Like I told you, I had nobody in my, um in my family that was a physician. And I don't even recall any of the positions that took care of me except my orthopedic surgeon. So, um, that's why you know, I wish I would have had some foresight or something inside. I guess I should say that's what I was getting myself into. Yeah, along the road for you, when you were in training and beginning your early career, Were there any specific inventory healthier? I wish I could say yes, but no. Um, there really was something there, Um, wasn't anybody that I sort of, you know, idolized or south. That boy, she really I want to become her. This is, you know, our position like her. Because there weren't even though I was in pediatrics. Um, where I trained, they were just a few, um, like female attendings. Most of them were still mail. And, um, in the couple that were one of them was just as intense is a male. I mean, she she really didn't have that sort of touchy feely part to say. OK, let's sit down. Let's talk about this kind of thing. And, um So there wasn't There wasn't anybody that really stood out that kind of help me charter, you know my path. Yeah. Yeah, that's something that I asked mainly because I think that the idea of the importance of mentors, that Petra is something that in my reading and understanding of the topics being pretty recent, that we really paid attention. Maybe only in, like, the last decade or so. Yeah, you're probably right, because it's now that word is being used more of a buzz word and all careers, you know, But, um and I think it does. I think it does make a difference. I think it would have made a difference for me. Have there been, You know, somebody. That's what it took me under their wing, Um, you know, and sort of help me plot my course. Like I said before, so on and you know it. And then I would gladly do that for somebody knowing what I didn't have. And in wondering if you know, my path would have been a little bit different. But I can't look back and think of anything that I would have done differently. Career wise? Yes. Um, I was happy with all my choices. You know, I like it said I really didn't really have a lot of choices in front of me was just sort of serendipitous. I did this and then I got into the residency program that was affiliated with my med school, went into practice in the same count in the same city. So, um, I kind of led a sheltered life. But I think that seems like the kind of happens one thing rolls into the next, and that maybe the idea of totally being able to plan it out or have all of these exact ideas. There's really something that makes you feel more secure it at our plan. But that really what winds up happening is that opportunities roll into opportunity, right? Right. And then I think if you try to plan or chart it out to specifically, and if it doesn't go that way, then what? You know, and I think that just can handsome some additional stress. And, um, you know, depending on the person can impact in a negative way as faras achieving your goals. So, yeah, I don't know. And I wish there was some clear and easy answer, but I just think it's being true to yourself. Understanding what? What is it that you want to get out of medicine? and, um, and at the same time with this is that you want to get out of life, you know? Do you want to travel? Do you want to write? Do you want to play musical instrument? Do you want to have relationship? Um, you know where your Children sit in, If that's what your choices. Um, you know, I love to cook. And so I used to take, like, a little cooking classes. And when he lived in Ohio and, you know, up here, not that it mounted anything, but that was sort of a relief and trying to be creative in that regard because I certainly can't draw. And, um, you know, and that would be trying to find a creative outlet. Yeah, it is, really, I think. Important. Yeah, absolutely. What do you think is one of the biggest barrier your challenges that you face in your career? The female position? I think some of it, especially way back when I was still that, um, you know, are you serious about what you're doing? You know, this is a man's world. Um, and are you really going to do the same kind of work? You know, you're taking up this residency spot. You know, when you are finished, you were going to do with your career so that well, maybe that wasn't overt. But, um, maybe a little, depending on the attending or the fellow residents from a couple of them. I sort of felt that way. Um, and you know also that question in their eyes. You know, as much as I know, Did you study as hard as I studied? Ah, but there was nothing really over. I mean, during my residency, there were a couple of people that really stood out as being very cerebral, very smart, um, in that, too. And, um, you know, and I was struggling personal life and my parents life and residency. So it's ended up, you know, kind of being a little of a blur and understandable. And that was back in the day where you'd be, You know, you'd be on call and you'll be up all night. But then you had to work the whole next day, not with the different regulations that they have now. So many, you know, many days you just kind of, like went through, which I'm not saying that's a really good way to do it. It was, uh, interesting learning experience and got exposed to a lot. But I'm not sure being tired all the time is good for your patients or, you know, good for you. Yes. Yeah, that's interesting. There's only that I think I have the same opportunity. So, you know, um, yeah, I didn't go on to, um, to ah, for specialty just because at that point in my life, it wasn't in the cards. And, um, you know, I did ask to stay. I was out, chief, right. One of the chief resident's and I was asked to stay on as a new fellow in their pediatric emergency medicine program. But I had enough trailblazing and enough being the cutting edge. And you know that point in time, I just needed just wanted to finish and get into practice. And so, you know, have things gone differently. Maybe it would have been in e. R. Doc, although I'm not sure that that would have been, too to my personality where I would have gone on and did a fellowship in behavior of developmental peas, which definitely would have fit my personality. You know, you can't look back and say what it could've should've. Yes, I had a good primary care life. Yes. What is one of the greatest rewards that you find doing your job? You know, I think it's just, um you know, the impact that you make on kids and their their caregivers, their parents. You know, if you have that one moment where you teach somebody some thing and they come back the next time and they say it worked or, um, even little things when you helped him through something and they give you a hug, You know, the hugs from little kids are priceless. Um, and I think it's that impact that you have. You know, if they're sick, you give the medicine to get better. Um, you know, if they're troubled, you listen to them and you help them get through things. So I think there's a teeny rewards all along the way. And every once in a while you'll have somebody say, run of comedian the mall or something. Don't you remember me? You know, you saved my child's life and Dr Oberman, my partner and I were talking about that the other day that sometimes you need to hear that to really understand what it is that you're doing, because there's little little things that we d'oh on a day to day in a week to week basis that tow us, unfortunately become kind of routine. But to the person that you're doing it for, it's that it's that one moment and it makes a much bigger impression. So you know, it's nice when people share that with you. So I think that's that's the feedback that you get in knowing that. Bye Immunizing a child, you're going to keep them from getting serious diseases. You know, by, um, you're teaching them and the appearance you These are things to be safe. These air think good things to eat. I mean, little things like that can really intact down for the rest of their life. And that's what I like about pediatrics is up Impressionism and being able to ah needto hopefully have them say you look back and go Oh, yeah, I remember my pediatrician. He or she did expires He for me? Yeah, not that go thing. I don't I don't want it to come across like it's well, you know, I remember because I'm so great. That's not That's not the point. But I think that, um, the relationship that we have our with our patients is very special. Um and you know, we enter a part of their world that nobody else enters, and, um and I think that's that's to be respected, you know? But I think that it also is to be cherished that we have that privilege to do that with our with our patients. And so it's a give and take. You know, it's not just that we're giving work caring you get a lot back from, you know, your patients as well. And, um, that, I think, is what you know at least keeps me going. Yeah, that's a very special gift that even just being at your profits for a little bit and being when you experiencing families over and over again as well you and you really get to know these people through this Fania cool. Or when you see people you took care of numbering their kids to you, um, you know, kind of like starting the cycle all over again is really it's really something special. That's why I'm not sure I would have done well in any other kind of specialty. That's amazing if you were to get a piece of advice. Thio Girl who's considering if she wants to be a doctor or what kind of residency to choose that natural, What would it be? So I mean that some of my high school patients, you know, it's like, shadowed me. And, you know, we talked about those kinds of things, and I think that the biggest thing is trying to get as much information as you can before you make that final decision. You know, I tried to get them in touch with other female physicians in different specialties. Have them really sit down and talk this thing out. Family members and medicine, you know, so that they understand the intensity and the commitment of what they're thinking about doing. So I think that, um, you know, prior to medical school is, I think, a really important soul searching kind of thing. You need to go in it because you just you kind of have that calling. It tried is that is, that says. But then I think about medicine. There's a whole bunch of different choices that you can make to suit your personality and still be in medicines. You can have things we don't really have much patient contact. You know you can have things where you do a lot of hands on. So there's that. That's the wonders of medicine so far picking which one of those areas you go to for me. I only I love Children. And so, you know, getting back to my mom. I should just say, I don't think I could go into anything pediatric. I don't think I could see. Um, you know, kids suffer And she said, But you know, I mean, it's a pediatrician. Somebody went through all my clerkship. It ended up the only one who really loved getting up in the morning. Forward Pediatrics. No, um, you know, moms know your kids better than anybody. So when it was all said and done, that's why I chose pediatrics, because that was the thing that inspired me the most that I was most intrigued with and that I could see myself doing for a long period of time. 30 year and fourth year in general are complete new experiences. That's a really good point. Feel like listen to your gut about which one is really drawing you to it. And then you get joy out of every day, right? Right. And listen to your gut always. You know, I mean, there's, you know, no physicians that left Madison, Um, and one was a psychiatrist and became a chef. You know, somebody else left the practice of medicine and went to work for insurance company. So because of a variety of reasons, they got burned out. Or, you know, some people finally realized once again into the meat of it when their career. I mean, he got through med school in the residency, but once they do the day to day stuff realizing this is really what I want to do with my life. So hee think being true to yourself a different points in time because what you think you want when you were thinking about med school, what do you think you want when you're choosing your residency and what you think you want? When you're finally done with your training, you're different points in your development. And so you like the actor is going to be the same. But you never

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know. Thank you so much, Dr Lockhart for coming to essential wisdom, inspiring future female physicians to share your story. It was such a joy to have this conversation with you to hear about your heart and the thoughts that you have about your path to becoming a pediatrician. I hope you guys out there who are listening are enjoying this just a CZ. Much as I am in this year of 2020 don't forget to tune in next week for another two installments of Essential Wisdom on Tuesday and Thursday, Thanks everyone and Happy New Year.